From: Harsha Godavari (h.godavari@home.com)
Date: Fri Sep 14 2001 - 04:01:44 CEST
Hi Gerrit:
The reason for my question was that often people use that
term (USA/Americans) loosely and some times they mean the govtcomplex and in
the next sentence they mean the citizens. They are distinctly different.
BTW I am an east Indian born and grew up in the Imperial India. I live in
Canada (about 60 miles from US border). I am aware of the US activities (as
published) in other parts of the world. Tell me why the Euros are
unappreciateive of Eschelon :-)
I realise that Germany has a handicap with Jews (but not with Israel)
Equating the two is illogical (and very similar to US=John Doe). The
Ashkenazis of Israel are behaving as if rebirth is a reality ! BTW there
is a new book coming out (may be out already) describing how American money
bankrolled Hitler's war machine through Swiss banks.
We better get off this discussion. We are supposed to be talking about
muLinux :-( Leave the wars to the hatemongers and gun-toting bullies.
Sleep well and pleasant dreams.
Regards
Harsha Godavari
Gerrit Lammert wrote:
> Hi Harsha,
>
> > Please clarify what you mean by USA/Americans Do you mean the
> > Political_Military_Industrial complex of USA or the average John
> Doe_Any
> > city_USA?
>
> The main idea is, that there is always a reason for acting like this or
> that.
> In Europe we are geographically nearer to all these threats and the
> people are more involved here.
> One example (for germany at least) are the problems in israel/palestina
> (not sure how to spell in english).
> One point is the history of the jews in correlation to nazi-germany.
> Because of these teribble events, we feel a strong relationship with
> jews. But on the other hand, israel in some aspects is acting as if they
> could not understand some of the palestinesian problems as they should.
> Its hard to explain, I'm stopping here.
>
> Back to USA:
> The USA are a very big country. To both sides, there are the two big
> ozeans. The US government spends a lot of money to ensure, that their
> army is stronger than every two other countries.
> To attack the land you need ships or aircrafts or missiles. The two
> first named are quite slow and the US army is ready fast. There are
> plans of defence against the missiles, too. So obvious, its very hard to
> start a war against the US.
> Bush even breaks some international agreements to ensure this safety.
> And he IS in a position to do so. Other countries moan, but keep quiet.
> What if Russia would act like that and say "sorry frieds, but we got to
> get more wapons, more war machinery to protect ourselfs." without any
> actual reason?
>
> What I mean is, that the US (the politics, especially foreign affairs)
> does not have to take care of any side effects.
> Take the Hussein-example:
> Amerika in war with iran
> -> americans give weapons to the iraki to help them. They didn't care if
> irak was a democratic country and such.
> -> gulf war
>
> Or of course the Bin Laden story:
> Bin Laden has been _trained_ by the CIA to help defending pakistan
> against the soviet union. Because they didn't want any country to
> "belong" to their enemy. In that time, they didn't care much about how
> Bin Laden works or what he stands for...
>
> This has just been politics of short sight.
> There is a problem -> find the fastest solution.
> But fastet isn't always best.
>
> Take the two worldwars. After the first world war, the winners took
> everything from germany that they could get as that was normal after a
> war at that time. But that is why there was so much hate against the
> allies and it was easy for the nazis to find people that joined them and
> wanted revange.
> After the 2. ww, the US needed western germany as a wall against
> communism, they helped us rebuild our economy and our society and thats
> why europe and especially germany are the closest allies to the USA.
> What I want to say is: Even as the USA have no special interest in
> states like afghanistan or sudan, they should try to help those that are
> friendly and risk to help some of those that are their enemies instead
> of bombing all of them as that would cause the friendly ones to turn
> against us, too.
>
> Alls this surely doesn't answer your question :-)
> I probably mean both (first the political complex "USA" but also the
> poeple there). I understand that many american citiziens are much more
> patriotic than europeans. There is a much more identifiing with and
> beeing proud of the country than over here.
>
> Damn, its all so hard to express. Its 3 in the morning, I'm going to bed
> now...
>
> ...gerrit
>
> > Gerrit Lammert wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Grzegorz,
> > >
> > > > I dont think USA has ever done something abroad out of the good
> will -
> > > ever
> > > > since Monroe Doctrine they do whatever suits them, and try to spin
> it
> > > as
> > > > working for the benefit of the humanity. And then they wonder why
> > > everyone
> > > > hates them...
> > >
> > > You might be right, but neither does any other country (or even
> > > individuum).
> > > The main difference is, that the US think (or thought) that they
> were
> > > invinceble and so don't have care too much. Were Europe is much
> nearer
> > > to the danger and and saw and sees the need to help there to protect
> > > ourselves.
> > >
> > > ...gerrit
> > >
> >
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